Belicheck

[stratocatter]

What I got out of it at the time was he'd rather take a huge risk than put it in his defense's hands at the other 30, or that his ego won out over his disclipline.

[vpkozel]

Originally Posted by Piper

I think I see the problem.

No need to get hostile, asshole.

[Pi.]

Originally Posted by Black&Blue

Chuck Noll made a similar decision (albeit his team was past midfield and there was less time left) in the Super Bowl and it failed, giving Dallas another crack on offense. After they stopped Dallas, Steelers players said that it showed the confidence that Noll had in his defense. Had New England made a stop, I'm guessing Bruschi and Harrison would be saying something along those lines as well.

It seems horrible now because it didn't work but I guess in his mind he's got the ball in the hands of the best player in football on the road and 2 yards wins the game.

What killed them was burning 2 timeouts that drive and not being able to challenge that spot. Listening to the NFL channel on Sirius today I heard quite a few guys say they thought the spot would have been very close to the first down. It was not a good spot regardless.

[kshead]

Originally Posted by Black&Blue

Chuck Noll made a similar decision (albeit his team was past midfield and there was less time left) in the Super Bowl and it failed, giving Dallas another crack on offense. After they stopped Dallas, Steelers players said that it showed the confidence that Noll had in his defense. Had New England made a stop, I'm guessing Bruschi and Harrison would be saying something along those lines as well.

Probably. But when you don't make it, you don't get to say shit like this:

Originally Posted by Black&Blue

I understand the percentages. In this case, I just think it's refreshing to see a coach show some balls and go for the win. They get that yard, and Belichick is Coach of the Year in the media's eyes. That's just the way it works. Now, blowing two timeouts for no reason was fucking stupid, but I still admire the decision to try and end the game right there. If you're playing against Jamarcus Russell, of course you punt. But when Peyton Manning needs six points to win, against a prevent defense, he's probably going to get it regardless of where he starts the drive.

This post/speech is for when you win. And then it's a lot shorter. More along the lines of "fuck you bitches, he made it".

When you don't make it, you just have to eat all of the shit Piper feeds you in this thread. Not you specifically, really, but Bill. The 30/30 yard line post was quality stuff. Bill can (will?) make up for it by dropping 45 on the Colts in January.

The best part is I had the Pats +2.5. I thought he was batshit crazy going for it but I knew my money was good so what the hell.

[chipshot]

Originally Posted by Pi.

It seems horrible now because it didn't work but I guess in his mind he's got the ball in the hands of the best player in football on the road and 2 yards wins the game.

What killed them was burning 2 timeouts that drive and not being able to challenge that spot. Listening to the NFL channel on Sirius today I heard quite a few guys say they thought the spot would have been very close to the first down. It was not a good spot regardless.

I listened too and all I heard was the guys saying it was clearly a good spot. I haven't looked at the play closely buts that's what I heard. They didn't so much question his decision as much as Bill suggesting it was a bad spot.

[Hyme Lipshitz]

I hate the Pats but Imus this morning came up with the stats that said the Pats had a 60% chance of getting the yard and a half they needed to put the game away so Belicheck went with the odds.. seemed strange to me but Manning was running through them like warm butter when he had the ball in the 4th quarter

if the Pats had got the first down you would have heard football junkies say.. "that's the way football should be played.. don't give the ball back to Manning and put the game to rest"

it always looks bad when it backfires

[Pi.]

Originally Posted by chipshot

I listened too and all I heard was the guys saying it was clearly a good spot. I haven't looked at the play closely buts that's what I heard. They didn't so much question his decision as much as Bill suggesting it was a bad spot.

I heard a couple guys including PK I think, say that a challenge would have been close because he seemed to control the ball right at the marker.

I'm not about to start a big debate here where someone starts asking for links and audio because that is a joke but even if the spot didn't give him the 1st down, it was closer than the spot they gave. A challenge would have been close.

[Piper]

Originally Posted by vpkozel

No need to get hostile, asshole.

I'll be here all week. Try the fish.

[Piper]

Originally Posted by Pi.

A challenge would have been close.

It was 50/50, and we never got to see a real good angle. On MNF game, you know they have plenty to work with. That makes the rest of the clock management earlier even worse, since they didn't have a TO to challenge with.

It was close. When its close, you leave it to the refs.

[Anderain]

It was absolutely the right call. How does anyone think that peyton manning wouldnt go 70 yards in 2 minutes?

[Pi.]

Originally Posted by Anderain

It was absolutely the right call. How does anyone think that peyton manning wouldnt go 70 yards in 2 minutes?

I don't know, maybe because the Patriots defense had forced 7 punts and 2 interceptions, both season highs for the Colts.

[y2b]

i think a punt would have been same result, and he knew it... Pats defense isn't as good as in the past, and against any QB other than Manning... punt the ball

going for it on 4th down gave them the best chance to win

[barry49s]

Originally Posted by Pi.

He did win 11 games last year with a QB that hadn't started a game since high school. How's that guy doing now?

It was a questionable move, at best, that he is paying for now. I was shocked but will cut him some slack because he has made a pretty good career out of putting his team in positions to win.

So if the Pats win twelve games this year Brady is only one game better than Matt Cassel? Jim Zorn would have six wins instead of six losses this season with Tom Brady at QB. Charlie Weis and Belichick should kiss Tom Brady on both ass cheeks.

[Pi.]

Originally Posted by barry49s

So if the Pats win twelve games this year Brady is only one game better than Matt Cassel? Jim Zorn would have six wins instead of six losses this season with Tom Brady at QB. Charlie Weis and Belichick should kiss Tom Brady on both ass cheeks.

That's ridiculous logic even for you Barry.

I'm not sure you remember who put all those defenses together this decade using smoke and mirrors...and who brought in and let go all those players to keep a dynasty alive in the free agancy error. Brady didn't do that.

[Pi.]

Originally Posted by y2b

Pats defense isn't as good as in the past, and against any QB other than Manning... punt the ball

going for it on 4th down gave them the best chance to win

NE's defense is ranked 8th in the league however they were missing 3 starters sunday night.

[y2b]

Originally Posted by Pi.

NE's defense is ranked 8th in the league however they were missing 3 starters sunday night.

that's fine... the prick still knew it didn't matter where Manning started the drive from. The only shot they had was keeping him on the sidelines at all costs.

[Piper]

In 2007, Manning had the ball in his hands with just under 2 minutes, down 24-20 vs the Pats.

The Pats stopped him. So he doesn't do it every time.

Belichick on a radio appearance brought up 2006 AFCCG where he had a 4th and 2 and decided to punt, and Manning of course burned him then. But he forgot the most recent example.

Manning has gotten in his head more than his own defense.

[Black&Blue]

I think Steve Czaben came up with the perfect analogy - punting the ball back to Peyton Manning in that situation is like getting in the trunk of a mafia sedan. You might live, but there's also the probability that the trunk opens up and Manning is standing over you with a shovel.

Had they punted the ball, they would still "have the lead". But against a prevent defense, you figure Manning will work the ball down into scoring position, and have enough time to take multiple shots into the endzone. You can't like those odds. Belichick tried to karate kick the gun and make a run for it, instead of getting into the trunk.

In hindsight, you can definitely question the move. I do believe that worse decisions are made by coaches, on a weekly basis, that go virtually unnoticed, like when the Panthers tried to score a touchdown at the end of the Saints game instead of kicking a FG and then trying the onsides kick.

Originally Posted by Piper

Manning has gotten in his head more than his own defense.

Say what you want about the interceptions, but that defense was not playing well in the 4th quarter. You punt the ball, Manning is probably going to work it into scoring position anyway, not just heave the ball up like he did on those picks.

[magnus]

Originally Posted by barry49s

So if the Pats win twelve games this year Brady is only one game better than Matt Cassel? Jim Zorn would have six wins instead of six losses this season with Tom Brady at QB. Charlie Weis and Belichick should kiss Tom Brady on both ass cheeks.

conversely, based on the last full season for both, Brady would be worth five more wins than his replacement.

[y2b]

looking at the replay... bobble, catch, tackled... 1st down

he brought the ball to his chest before getting took to the ground while still across the 30 yard line